Man, Man, Man

Mr. Theunert, who are you and what drives you?

I am a not-so-young man of 51, who has been driven by one question in particular for more than 30 years: What does it mean to be a man well and truly? My motivation was and is to find an answer to this question.

Sounds like a straightforward task at first.

It's less trivial than it sounds. As a young man in the eighties and nineties, I was surprised that this topic didn't concern every man. Back then, there were ultimately two options: Macho or softy. I remember thinking: You can't be serious. It can't just be these two alternatives. There must be a third, fourth, fifth, sixth option, mixed forms, discussions and research. But there was hardly anything like that. Toxic masculinity was much more concealed back then – there wasn't even a term for it.

But when it comes to masculinity, at least things have changed, haven't they?

Let's say something has changed a little. There is a discourse about toxic masculinity in the mainstream. However, for my taste, it focuses too much on toxic male behavior rather than on the structures and norms that suggest and demand it. These remain far too often unexamined.

How come?

Patriarchy is extremely clever at disguising itself. Politically, the issue of masculinity is orphaned. There is only appropriation from the right, male attempts at resovereignization with slogans like: Real men are right-wing men. I miss a serious discussion of what white masculinity means today and what sustainable forms of manhood could be, especially in the middle class, but also from men on the left-green side.

You have written a book called »Boys, we can do it: a compass for men today«. What exactly do men need to achieve?

With »Boys, we can do it«, I create an imaginary »we« to begin with, an assumption that men are connected in some way.

Are they?

Yes, but not in the obvious sense that all men have a penis or a beard or money in their bank account. It is the compulsion to develop a masculine self-relationship, i.e. to have to behave in accordance with social masculinity requirements. These requirements exist, even if they are not explicitly laid down anywhere. And all those men or people identifying as male, who wish to find recognition, to relate as a real man, are forced to refer to these masculinity requirements in such a way that they fulfill enough of them. In this way, they avoid the risk of being devalued as unmanly. (...)

→ Read the full interview in rampstyle #33.